Tulpa.info - tulpa-questions

Definitely at least once.

12:46 AM

Or i have seen you on the chat at the very least.

glad i left such a lasting impression

sh

glad i left such a lasting impression

It was the unbalanced brackets.

Hahaha

Hiya - joined this server to ask a question. I recently met someone through a hypnosis community who seems to have had a tulpa created through hypnosis years ago, who has grown to the point they now sometimes experience blackout switching. I'm pretty confused, because I have heard of tulpas before and usually the lack of amnesia is one of the things that separates them from dissociative disorders. Any thoughts on whether that's possible? For context, this tulpa was originally intended to be extremely destructive and possessive, which might contribute to the weirdness.

anise

Hiya - joined this server to ask a question. I recently met someone through a hypnosis community who seems to have had a tulpa created through hypnosis years ago, who has grown to the point they now sometimes experience blackout switching. I'm pretty confused, because I have heard of tulpas before and usually the lack of amnesia is one of the things that separates them from dissociative disorders. Any thoughts on whether that's possible? For context, this tulpa was originally intended to be extremely destructive and possessive, which might contribute to the weirdness.

Blackout switching is definitely nothing you should pursue, at that point the condition most likely causes distress or interferes with normal life, likely making it some kind of disorder. However dissociative disorders have many other specific characteristics besides amnesia, so this alone is not enough information to make any good claim. (edited)

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4:40 AM

As for if this is achievable just through tulpamancy i have no evidence to back or disprove that claim. (edited)

4:42 AM

To answer that question you would need to very carefully define what the boundaries of the tulpamancy practice constitute, and that is something you wont get people to agree about so i believe its ultimately irrelevant. (edited)

anise

Hiya - joined this server to ask a question. I recently met someone through a hypnosis community who seems to have had a tulpa created through hypnosis years ago, who has grown to the point they now sometimes experience blackout switching. I'm pretty confused, because I have heard of tulpas before and usually the lack of amnesia is one of the things that separates them from dissociative disorders. Any thoughts on whether that's possible? For context, this tulpa was originally intended to be extremely destructive and possessive, which might contribute to the weirdness.

Is it possible? Well, your friend is experiencing it so sure, it is possible. It’s fine to discuss it here among other people who have no idea what they are talking about, but if I was you I wouldn’t try to put any labels related to plurality or dissociation to your friend’s experience and tell them about it, because as soon as you bring up plurality to them and say that something seems to you to be a tulpa, you are starting personality forcing and splitting process for them. It’s especially problematic if they had experience with hypnosis and being in suggestive states. I know you are trying to help but in my opinion you shouldn’t be giving them solution or explanation of what’s going on, especially that you might be biased towards explaining it by plurality/tulpamancy. Instead, you can just talk to them about their experience so they can make sense of it by themselves. You are thinking it’s plurality, someone will tell you it’s dissociative amnesia, but it might be just memory problems. Hypnosis can affect memory and that’s how I would start thinking about it https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posthypnotic_amnesia (edited)

Posthypnotic amnesia

Post-hypnotic amnesia is the inability in hypnotic subjects to recall events that took place while under hypnosis. This can be achieved by giving individuals a suggestion during hypnosis to forget certain material that they have learned either before or during hypnosis. Individuals who are experiencing post-hypnotic amnesia cannot have their mem...

KiTkAT( •̀ .̫ •́ )✧/jk

Is it possible? Well, your friend is experiencing it so sure, it is possible. It’s fine to discuss it here among other people who have no idea what they are talking about, but if I was you I wouldn’t try to put any labels related to plurality or dissociation to your friend’s experience and tell them about it, because as soon as you bring up plurality to them and say that something seems to you to be a tulpa, you are starting personality forcing and splitting process for them. It’s especially problematic if they had experience with hypnosis and being in suggestive states. I know you are trying to help but in my opinion you shouldn’t be giving them solution or explanation of what’s going on, especially that you might be biased towards explaining it by plurality/tulpamancy. Instead, you can just talk to them about their experience so they can make sense of it by themselves. You are thinking it’s plurality, someone will tell you it’s dissociative amnesia, but it might be just memory problems. Hypnosis can affect memory and that’s how I would start thinking about it https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posthypnotic_amnesia (edited)

Hi, thanks both of you :) Apologies, I think my wording was a bit confusing. She is the one who told me about this tulpa, who clearly already has a defined personality and identity. She told me that they are a tulpa, and that this amnesia exists. I've spoken to said tulpa, and they're real. I said seems because I found this all somewhat hard to believe at first. (edited)

1:26 PM

I'm definitely not looking to apply labels to someone else's experience. I was also wondering if intentionally creating a tulpa through hypnosis might be a reason, I have not heard of hypnotic amnesia working this way before, but I guess it's possible.

Thanks for clarifying!

nw lol, I realised it was really misleading, oops

Hiya - joined this server to ask a question. I recently met someone through a hypnosis community who seems to have had a tulpa created through hypnosis years ago, who has grown to the point they now sometimes experience blackout switching. I'm pretty confused, because I have heard of tulpas before and usually the lack of amnesia is one of the things that separates them from dissociative disorders. Any thoughts on whether that's possible? For context, this tulpa was originally intended to be extremely destructive and possessive, which might contribute to the weirdness.

@anise - jump Hi! Yes, while I can't provide actual research or anything (sadly a problem with most tulpa stuff) I have seen many cases of amnesia in hypnotically created tulpas, especially in erotic hypnosis communities and such. I can't really talk in depth about it since I haven't studied post hypnotic amnesia but I've seen many tulpas or things related to tulpas made from hypnosis files have suggestions for blackout switches and such.

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4:07 PM

That said those cases had the amnesia written into their scripts so I'm not quite sure why it would manifest for a tulpa if it didn't have hypnotic suggestions for it to happen or intentional practice to cause it to occur.

4:07 PM

It is possible though

I'd also like to state the obligatory if they have amnesia make sure it isn't DID/OSDD. There are DID systems who have mistaken themselves for tulpas, but if they are sure it's a tulpa then don't force the issue, that doesn't help anyone.

4:14 PM

(just to be clear that wasn't me stating I think it is DID, just be sure to check all boxes so you can get the most accurate answer to the situation)

Dawn 🕯

That said those cases had the amnesia written into their scripts so I'm not quite sure why it would manifest for a tulpa if it didn't have hypnotic suggestions for it to happen or intentional practice to cause it to occur.

I mean, I have heard of things like this and even tried stuff like this before but I didn't get any results to speak of, so am v skeptical :)

If you want to make sure it isn’t did get the doctor check all the boxes

4:19 PM

don’t do it yourself because you wouldn’t know what you are doing

Exactly ^^, this is just someone I met randomly a few days ago, I wanted to ask out of personal curiosity, I'm not trying to help them

4:20 PM

Actually that would be pretty stupid it seems

Dawn 🕯

That said those cases had the amnesia written into their scripts so I'm not quite sure why it would manifest for a tulpa if it didn't have hypnotic suggestions for it to happen or intentional practice to cause it to occur.

She claimed that she had to practice for it to happen.

4:25 PM

And yeah, this was erotic hypnosis which was the reason for the destructive nature of this 'tulpa', to begin with.

I mean, I have heard of things like this and even tried stuff like this before but I didn't get any results to speak of, so am v skeptical :)

@anise - jump Well hypnosis is very subjective, some will get results much faster than others will if at all. For instance my system is much more likely to experience strange things than others in our experience.

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Dawn 🕯

I mean, I have heard of things like this and even tried stuff like this before but I didn't get any results to speak of, so am v skeptical :)

@anise - jump Well hypnosis is very subjective, some will get results much faster than others will if at all. For instance my system is much more likely to experience strange things than others in our experience.

Hypnosis is indeed weird and subjective

One interesting thing to note is that tulpamancers often score higher on the Tellegen absorption scale, which is the capacity for getting "absorbed" in thoughts and imagination, and it just so happens to scale with hypnotizability and ability to experience trance states too.

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Really? Was this from research or smth? I thought we barely knew anything about tulpas

There's very little research, but there is a couple papers, here's one I downloaded the other day which covers tulpamancy experiences in comparison to evangelical Christian experiences, it references the absorption scale

Rimbach_Sator_Tulpamancy_Enforcing_benig.docx

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Dawn 🕯

There's very little research, but there is a couple papers, here's one I downloaded the other day which covers tulpamancy experiences in comparison to evangelical Christian experiences, it references the absorption scale

Thanks! Does seem that just like hypnosis it's going to be something that's very difficult to study in detail

5:06 PM

It does make sense to me that specifically using hypnosis to create tulpas would lean towards amnesia. I guess I've never experienced hypnotic amnesia but it doesn't mean it's not real.

We've had some experience with weak hypnotic amnesia and it's interesting. The fronter at the time couldn't remember the script while we in the back could somewhat better, we broke through it just a couple minutes later. (edited)

Interesting! I would love to see how it feels but my brain really doesn't want to let it work for whatever reason

Well it's both biology and skill, with enough practice in trance and suggestability it could probably happen to you.

I definitely hope so lmao, I've been messing around with hypnosis for a pretty long time

5:10 PM

Anyways, I hope i'm not totally derailing the convo here - I think the intersection between tulpas and hypnosis is so fascinating, but that's also because hypnosis is my main entry point to this lmao

Conversations like this are exactly what this server is about, don't worry about it (=

5:14 PM

I find the intersection really cool too since we also have a tulpa in our system made from a hypnosis file

Wow!

And yeah, this was erotic hypnosis which was the reason for the destructive nature of this 'tulpa', to begin with.

@anise - jump Sorry if this is prying too much into personal life stuff but would you mind sharing what file it was or if it was done in a live session? We like to document each one we come across.

It was a series of live sessions :) No, this was not yet another horror story involving everyone's beloved cartoon deer

interesting, and that's good news, the cartoon deer is a bit worse than just blackouts So far We've found about three file series made for/related to tulpa creation including the deer, and a couple independent files like the one we used.

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Dawn 🕯

interesting, and that's good news, the cartoon deer is a bit worse than just blackouts So far We've found about three file series made for/related to tulpa creation including the deer, and a couple independent files like the one we used.

Interesting! Although I will say that personally I am pretty skeptical of the effectiveness of those files, but I understand they have really messed people up. Unfortunately that was my introduction to what a tulpa was :/

5:23 PM

Literally feel so weird coming in this group from decidedly nsfw hypnosis spaces, but idk, there is some weird shit going on over there wrt tulpas. At least most people agree it's unethical to attempt.

I find how tulpamancy manifests in NSFW hypnosis spaces really interesting but also concerning. They are really misinformed on it and that let's the more disturbing files to get away with what they do.

If it's ok to ask, which spaces are you talking about? In my experience, the majority of nsfw hypnosis spaces are very cautious about this type of thing.

5:28 PM

(I agree on the lack of info though)

Places like r/erotichypnosis and such. They either view it as always evil and going to mess you up or completely harmless instead of something with nuance

Ahahaha, well yeah the EH subreddit is fucking awful

5:29 PM

It's full of people who barely know what hypnosis is

5:30 PM

I think the biggest danger posed by the 'disturbing' stuff around is that towards really new people who don't know what they're getting into

agreed, most horror stories come from people with high hypnotizability diving into something without any prior research.

I’ve never heard of that sub before but that’s wild

Dawn 🕯

agreed, most horror stories come from people with high hypnotizability diving into something without any prior research.

Yeah. I've actually listened to a lot of the supposedly 'dangerous' hypnosis stuff out there without much damage done

5:36 PM

But when I'm trancing other people I always try and make sure they're not going to accidentally be more affected than they wanted :/

I think knowing the risks already naturally prepares people to handle them, it's people who completely go along with it with zero sense of concern or self protection that get burned. It's kinda like how you can talk someone into doing something stupid if you start small and build up, but if they know you do that to people beforehand nothing would happen.

Sounds right, yeah. But hypnosis is weird af so everyone's different. Tulpas seem to be similar? Not really sure, I do not know nearly as much about this topic

Dawn 🕯

I think knowing the risks already naturally prepares people to handle them, it's people who completely go along with it with zero sense of concern or self protection that get burned. It's kinda like how you can talk someone into doing something stupid if you start small and build up, but if they know you do that to people beforehand nothing would happen.

^^ also what people 'want' is a complex thing you can manipulate, which unfortunately leads to some more of those bad situations

@anise - jump This is a major point not enough people get

That's true

Sounds right, yeah. But hypnosis is weird af so everyone's different. Tulpas seem to be similar? Not really sure, I do not know nearly as much about this topic

@anise - jump Tulpamancy is highly subjective just like hypnosis yeah, some hypothesize that tulpamancy is kind of an inherently hypnotic phenomena although it's just that, a hypothesis

Dawn 🕯

Sounds right, yeah. But hypnosis is weird af so everyone's different. Tulpas seem to be similar? Not really sure, I do not know nearly as much about this topic

@anise - jump Tulpamancy is highly subjective just like hypnosis yeah, some hypothesize that tulpamancy is kind of an inherently hypnotic phenomena although it's just that, a hypothesis

Ooooohhh, I could definitely see it kind of being in the same category as other hypnotic phenomena, although that comes with the headache of defining what 'hypnotic' means :p

Yeah that discussion would probably take hours and end in a big ol idk

So much so.... I spent such a long time trying to get to the bottom of what exactly hypnosis is, but it's so poorly understood I just, you know... do the thing and trance people now haha

5:50 PM

Kinda cool that there's an overlap in communities tbh

I'm honestly surprised it isn't bigger but that gets into weird tulpa community history

Hypnosis in tulpamancy might correlate with how much a tulpamancer dissociate.

Dawn 🕯

I'm honestly surprised it isn't bigger but that gets into weird tulpa community history

Really? Wow

5:54 PM

The relation between hypnosis and dissociation is interesting too

dissociation is also a factor on that absorption scale I discussed earlier

Ahh, makes sense

5:56 PM

I mean absorption is basically what being hypnotised is, in one framing

5:56 PM

Or part of it, I guess

5:56 PM

So I can see how there might be a link to creating tulpas

Well to quote one of the people who use the absorption scale for studying thoughtforms absorption is "the mental capacity common to trance, hypnosis, dissociation, and much other spiritual experience in which the individual becomes caught up in ideas or images or fascinations"

Ahh, yeah that is interesting

5:58 PM

Obviously we don't know but I would guess that all these phenomena share something in common

5:58 PM

I came to the conclusion a lot of spiritual experiences have similarities with hypnosis as well

anise

So I can see how there might be a link to creating tulpas

I think the link is placed between hypnosis and (mostly) dissociative experiences of some tulpamancers (automatic responses, possession, switching, imposition), rather than in core tulpamancy.

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The person quoted studies the phenomenon of God talking back in Vineyard evangelicals so they use absorption for many spiritual experiences. It's crossover with tulpamancy is really interesting to me and I hope more research is done

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That is so fascinating

6:01 PM

I do too!

I'm personally of the opinion that all successful tulpamancy is inherently hypnotic and dissociative in nature since it's altering identity states. People will debate what tulpamancy is forever though and come to very different conclusions. It's very much like hypnosis in that regard.

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Sure, that's kinda frustrating. But I guess if people find ways to achieve results and they are happy, it's ok. Same with hypnosis :p

6:04 PM

Oh - back to what I originally came here to ask, what were your other experiences of blackout switching with tulpas?

Well my phone is dying so I'll make this fast. We've observed other people who use certain hypnosis files will have blackout switches with the tulpa that can last for hours and the intensity of which varies between people and how often they used the files

I always heard stories like that but I found it hard to believe tbh. Crazy if true

6:08 PM

I would not want to experience that if I had a tulpa

6:08 PM

Although it is wildly fascinating

Dawn 🕯

I'm personally of the opinion that all successful tulpamancy is inherently hypnotic and dissociative in nature since it's altering identity states. People will debate what tulpamancy is forever though and come to very different conclusions. It's very much like hypnosis in that regard.

I think dissociation you need for fulfilling tulpamancy experience in is minimal. In the end tulpamancy is more about association than dissociation.

If you are getting blackout switching there is something else you are doing that isn’t tulpamancy or you got something medicinally wrong with you

We're discussing hypnotic amnesia in tulpamancy Rusty it's different than DID stuff

Rusty

If you are getting blackout switching there is something else you are doing that isn’t tulpamancy or you got something medicinally wrong with you

Even extreme dissociative experience don' have to be connected to medical conditions. They should cause distress and be experienced repetitively to be considered that.

I would not want to experience that if I had a tulpa

@anise - jump Most people wouldn't, we've experimented with it in the past (a couple months back) and can say that while we thought it cool most would probably hate it.

Dawn 🕯

I would not want to experience that if I had a tulpa

@anise - jump Most people wouldn't, we've experimented with it in the past (a couple months back) and can say that while we thought it cool most would probably hate it.

So this was working with hypnosis to try and induce amnesia with an already existing tulpa?

6:16 PM

(Btw if your phone's gonna die, this was super fun and cool, this whole lil community is absolutely insanely interesting ❤️ )

So this was working with hypnosis to try and induce amnesia with an already existing tulpa?

@anise - jump Yeah, hypnosis and dissociation training type stuff. We were already a system for quite a few months before messing with it and only got partial success although it was really interesting.

6:18 PM

Phone's on 3% so probably only got like five minutes left